Alternative diagnostics – the dodgy, the dopey & the downright dangerous

Submitted by Alice on Mon, 12/03/2012 - 14:50.

I find it interesting that Loretta refers to the lady as "my naturopath". This is generally a possessive pronoun reserved for a practitioner who treats us and for whom we have respect. "My" doctor, "my" dentist as opposed to "your" doctor or "your dentist." Is "my" naturopath a Freudian slip on Loretta's part? Why would she lay claim to someone into whose life she is constantly shooting toxic arrows. Fair is fair, Loretta. Either claim the naturopath as your own, admit that you go there, or stop this dreadfully vicious campaign completely and declare why you have this personal set against natural therapies. Like all the rest of your writing you seem to have one foot in one camp and one in the other i.e. science at whatever basic level you operate, and business, whatever basic level you reached there too. Your arguments are so fundamental and preschool in the world of science they are boring. Not a hint of wisdom of the past nor promise of the future in any of your limited writings. I feel for your restricted views and hope that you can remove yourself from this negativity which pervades everything you say, write and do. This must affect your health.
Cheer up. Be happy. And enjoy life. I know it's placebo, but laughter and joy are such nice placebos. Much better than writing poison pen letters.

Submitted by Trevor on Mon, 12/03/2012 - 13:26.

In Loretta we find an unhappy old lady who missed out on the pleasures of life, so now she just sits around and makes hundreds of complains to the TGACRP "ANONYMOUSLY". Little does she know that hundreds of thousands now know that she along with her partner Gavin Mutton are really the main Natural Therapy trouble makers in Australia, A skeptic is someone who can only access their logic brain unfortunately and thinks that ONE SIZE FITS ALL. There is no such thing as EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE because we all have biochemical individuality! Ask a REAL SCIENTIST who is really qualified!!!

Submitted by jfalken on Fri, 30/12/2011 - 17:31.

Eric Bakker ND - "The only lessons a patient is likely to learn at the hands of an average GP is the recommendation of a toxic drug after a four minute consultation."
What a crock of bull. Putting 'ND' after your name... I bet you couldn't even suture a cut, that's how 'good' a healer you are.

Charlatan! You'd sell snake oil if the government didn't stop you!

Submitted by Jenny on Thu, 15/03/2012 - 09:02.

Responding to J Falken’s comments – ND’s and Snake Oil. Krill oil (our whale’s main food source) is heavily marketed for its amazing results for arthritis and hyperlipidema. While whales are on the endangered species list, trawlers continue to harvest their food supply in the name of profit. In your ignorance you refer to snake oil as quackery. Despite the reference to snake oil as charlatanism it may offer some legitimate health benefits. According to a report published in the Western Journal of Medicine, the oil of the Chinese water snake is an excellent source of the omega-3 fatty acid eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). This compound shows promise as a nutritional supplement and holistic treatment for several conditions. I'm not sure if it is on the endangered species list but would be nice to spare the whales of their food if the Chinese Govt would allow greedy trawlers into their waterways. As for your comments re suturing, this little ND used to stitch people up all the time during my remote nursing days. Now aged 70, I try to avoid bush emergencies and spend my week days sharing my secrets on preventative health and longevity and recovering from my weekends of hard yakka in my herb garden. Having carted 30 barrow loads of mulch uphill last weekend I enjoy my week days as a lounge lizard doing acupuncture and massage and assessing client’s symptoms that their physicians failed to diagnose through blood tests and scans in a ten minute consult. Why don't we look at lizard oil's health benefits? However I'm not yet ready for the recycle bin as I love life and am thankful for great energy and fitness of body, mind and soul.

Submitted by Jenny on Tue, 13/03/2012 - 10:29.

Eric, I am responding to your comments about Snake Oil. Krill oil (our whale’s main food source) is heavily marketed for its amazing results for arthritis and hyperlipidema. While whales are on the endangered species list, trawlers continue to harvest their food ssupply in the name of profit. In your ignorance you refer to snake oil as quackery. Despite the reference to snake oil as charlatanism it may offer some legitimate health benefits. According to a report published in the Western Journal of Medicine, the oil of the Chinese water snake is an excellent source of the omega-3 fatty acid eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). This compound shows promise as a nutritional supplement and holistic treatment for several conditions. I'm not sure if it is on the endangered species list but would be nice to spare the whales of their food if the Chinese Govt would allow greedy trawlers into their waterways. As for your comments re suturing, this little ND used to stitch people up all the time during my remote nursing days. Now aged 70, I try to avoid bush emergencies and spend my week days sharing my secrets on preventative health and longevity and recovering from my weekends of hard yakka in my herb garden. Having carted 30 barrowloads of mulch uphill last weekend I enjoy my week days as a lounge lizard doing acupuncture and massage and assessing client’s symptoms that their physicians failed to diagnose through blood tests and scans in a ten minute consult. Why don't we look at lizard oil's health benefits? However I'm not yet ready for the recycle bin as I love life and am thankful for great energy and fitness of body, mind and soul.
As for the arrogance of Skeptics, Australia is a Christian society that recognises Xmas. I’ll bet the skeptics don’t work over Easter or Xmas. I believe a few good old fashioned values need to come back into play. Instead of buying kids mobile phones and digital games, send them off to sunday school and teach them manners and respect as well as to read, write and think. Encourage family values and some discipline and stop wasting energy on subjects you haven't got a clue about just to gain notoriety. I’m not suggesting we go berserk with religion, however it is better than all this atheist skepticism that has historically proven to lead to genecide such as happened in Russia and Germany. No-one really cares about your TGA complaints or any of the boring crap you carry on about. Focus your attention on protecting our youth from corruption and saving the environment and with your determination you could actually gain the recognition you so desperately crave.

Submitted by Eric Bakker ND on Fri, 30/09/2011 - 21:00.

I love posts such as this, they only prove how misguided and gullible some poor writers really are. Loretta obviously has not spent any time in a clinic cleaning up patients suffering from the toxic effects of "evidence" based medicine. I have seen patients for over 20yrs, and most chronic cases I see show plenty of evidence alright, and are far worse off after medical "science" than before. Thank GOD I had the foresight to study and apply the laws of nature when it comes to healing. Interesting to note Loretta that the term "doctor" in Latin means "teacher". The only lessons a patient is likely to learn at the hands of an average GP is the recommendation of a toxic drug after a four minute consultation. My website naturopath.co.nz may be quite an education for you. Be sure to see Western Medicine under the Articles tab.

Submitted by David on Fri, 23/12/2011 - 17:58.

What are the 'laws of nature' generally and/or specifically when it comes to healing?

Submitted by Julie on Wed, 28/09/2011 - 15:09.

I too was once skeptical about natural therapies, that is until I was misdiagnosed numerous times & found no real relief from medical practicioners. However my health has never been better than now, and I've had no GP input for years. In fact had I listened to the doctors I would be on a pension now instead of employed full time.

Submitted by jake on Wed, 21/09/2011 - 17:15.

So my seeing for myself that my RBCs were undersized ie Microcytes, was not proof that I had an iron problem. I had so few normal RBCs that when we saw a normacyte, we got out the gauge to check. This made me go to the doctor and get bloods done. Sure enough, iron deficiency anaemia!

This was just a chance visit to a friend with one of these Hemaview microscopes, a free test just to have a look and I did not have any real symptoms to be looking for anything.

Tell me it was dodgy, dopey or even dangerous, tell me it was quackery or even a placebo and sorry, I'll laugh in your face. It was every bit as useful as a MCV, no it was better than an MCV because I saw it instantly, I didn't need to wait for the results to come back.

Please use your brain, take a quick look yourself at what can be learned instantly with one of these and take it off your list of suspect therapies.

If Doctors would use them as a matter of course in their surgeries, this would have been spotted months, maybe years ago.

Look I agree many things in this field can be suspect but this, in my opinion, is solid science.

Submitted by Josephine Jones on Mon, 03/10/2011 - 22:23.

I am a biologist from the UK who has become concerned recently about vulnerable members of the public being misled by advertising claims being made by alternative health practitioners – particularly with respect to Live Blood Analysis.

It is simply not possible to observe the vast majority of the phenomena which practitioners claim may be seen using this technique. I personally have made several complaints to the Advertising Standards Authority in the UK about companies who have made misleading and unsubstantiated claims about what may be observed using LBA and what health conditions it can ‘help’. The companies have then either agreed to remove these claims, or in the case of the adjudication against MyCityDeal (t/a Groupon), my complaint has been upheld in full (I have written about this in more detail on my Josephine Jones blog).

The Hemaview leaflet (linked in the article above) claims that Hemaview can assess clients for high fat diets, poor nutrition, smoking & alcohol, stress, immune system health, oxidative stress & free radical damage, inflammation and liver health. I believe this is all misleading and unsubstantiated. It also states that live blood analysis can give ‘an accurate and immediate indication of the state of your general health’. This is simply not true.

In reply to Jake’s comment, however, it *is* possible to see blood cells clearly using the Hemaview microscope (as he experienced). It is therefore possible to ascertain if you have microcytic anaemia in this way. However, conventional blood testing is far more sophisticated than simply looking at the cells under a microscope. As I say time and time again, if anyone has concerns about their health, they really should go to see a (real) doctor. Doctors not only have reliable diagnostic tests at their disposal, but also have the necessary medical background to interpret the results correctly and give sensible advice.

Practitioners of live blood analysis do not tend to have had any conventional medical training whatsoever. Indeed, those I have encountered in the UK have a fundamental misunderstanding about human biology – they believe in ‘Dr’ Robert O Young’s ‘New Biology’ and the ludicrous theory of ‘pleomorphism’. According to this, all illness is caused by acidity and the body’s own cells transform into yeasts and bacteria. Some of them claim that they can help serious conditions such as cancer and diabetes – some of them even advising sufferers to cease their conventional treatment. This is quackery at its most dangerous.

Submitted by jake on Mon, 16/04/2012 - 15:01.

Ah yes, but what do you say when 2 subsequent conventional blood tests show "normal" iron levels. Iron supplementation has given me more energy than I've ever had. I thought reduced energy was just a normal part of the aging process. It wasn't severe. I figure something is wrong with the tests I had done.

Submitted by James on Fri, 03/12/2010 - 08:19.

Great work. Honesty and accountability is not common in snake oil sales people. My rule of thumb is if the person making miracle claims cannot work in any hospital in Australia then it is more a religion than a medical service. As you say the placebo effect is extraordinary so as long as the snake oil is not killing people we can assume "A fool and his/her money are soon parted" is still as valid as ever! People are still legally able to choose to smoke or use snake oil treatments.

Submitted by Linda on Mon, 13/09/2010 - 09:33.

Skeptics must be such unhappy people when their very nature pushes them to disparage so much and leave them with so little to believe in.

Submitted by katie Thompson on Wed, 02/11/2011 - 05:38.

This is so true I love how the so called scientists think they know every thing and flat out refuse anyone elses theories whether they come from doctors or not (funny considering most naturopathic ideas are sprung from doctors).I think this show ignorance in itself. Interesting to see also one of the sceptics says shes has a BSc and a buisness degree this is the problem with "orthodox" medicine its become about being a buisness rather than helping the people they take an oath to help.As far as NO SCIENTIFIC BACKROUND is concered I am training as a naturopath in New Zealand and we certainly have scientific training and this is regulated by a qualifications authority (mainstream education body). We have sat the same anatomy and physiology, pathophysiology and nutrition,pharmacology as well as phytopharmacology, biochemistry and also medical history and politics these are all at level 7,to get a doctorate is usualy at around level 9 or 10.We can acheive these and most naturopaths do continue to study and get masters and doctorate papers, infact ALL of my lecturers are doctors in the mainstream medical feilds eyes and chooses to practice the way they do and are very passionate about education in the feild of medicine. As for quakery we all know that this word stems from the masks the orthodox practitioners wore a long time ago and does not actualy refer to modern herbalists at all. As far as no evidence is concered the millions of successful human trials should be evidence enough that naturopaths are successful in the feild of medicine often where conventional medicine has failed patients who then turn to naturopathy.Funny also that if you read up on the pharmacological actions of a lot of the 20 most prescribed drugs you'll be suprised to find that even though approved scientists still dont know how or why a lot of theses medicines have the effects on our body that they do.To finish I'd like to say to you doctors with your eyes closed, how can you fill a cup that is already full.The answer is , you can't.Namaste =)

Submitted by Linda on Sun, 12/09/2010 - 13:03.

Professional skeptics such as Marron must lead tiny, trapped, miserable little lives if pulling everything down is the most fun they get out of the day. Imagine what it must be like to have such a mean, negative, black little mind driving your life. Ugggg... too awful to contemplate.

Submitted by Louise Milligan on Wed, 08/09/2010 - 17:54.

Thank you so much for your information concerning your naturopath. I found you on a google search because I need a trusted natural therapist to continue my ongoing lymphodema treatments using SAFE lymphatic massage.We recently moved to Hervey Bay, a seaside area that fits your naturopaths description. I have been seeing an amazing naturopath out west whom I trust totally,and she used iridology to diagnoseour family. She also uses hair analysis that she sends to America, and although the results are different from medical blood testing, my husband was amazed by his response to mineral therapy, even though he had a torn ligament. Hair analysis also picked up my thyroid imbalance along with iridology that she treated with homeopathy. To find a naturopath to fit into her shoes could mean relocating my entire family, but it could happen with the right advice. My beautiful daughter was misdiagnosed by a doctor with a pinched nerve in the viscera (whatever that is) 10 years ago and when we lost her to ovarian cancer, our family decided that we would seek alternate advice for our health problems in the future. If you could give me the name of the your naturopath at a seaside clinic, I would love to see her if it is okay.

Submitted by Loretta Marron on Sat, 12/06/2010 - 10:08.

I find am always sceptical about someone who promotes homeopathy and magnetic therapy to vulnerable patients.

Mr Quigley also runs seminars on "The Potential of "Special" Foods, Herbs and Supplements in Preventing and Fighting Cancer".
While advice on a healthy lifestyle is always important and green tea, for example, is good for you, according to cancer specialist Dr Nicholas Wilcken.
" there is no evidence at all that vitamin supplements either stop people from getting cancer or help them when they do. Large scale international studies if anything show the opposite - higher rates of cancer in those either consuming higher vitamin diets or randomised in trials to take vitamin supplements. So they might be harmful (still some debate) but they are definitely not helpful."

His opinion is backed up by Kathy Chapman of the Cancer Council who says that vitamin supplements are “not all they’re cracked up to be”.

On herbals, I get my advice and information from Prof Edzard Ernst and the NPS recommended databases.

It would be good to see an article from Mr Quickley backed by the Cancer Council that also links to evidence-based medicine sites such as COCHRANE.

Submitted by Gerald Quigley on Tue, 13/04/2010 - 17:50.

I am quite skeptical about the self-opinionated skeptics? Does anybody actually read this stuff? Does anybody care? Why are we so "down" on people who might be offering better patient care than their local medical practitioner or pharmacist?

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Alternative diagnostics – the dodgy, the dopey & the downright dangerous

Loretta Marron BSc

Published in Information to Pharmacists , 01/04/2010, Volume 2, No. 3